Thread:Patrick.vtap/@comment-27097330-20160904202547/@comment-27097330-20160905140553

Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: ChazmanianDevil wrote: No, at times Gondor had an excellent navy. And it was then that it conquered Umbar, considering it also had the advantage on land. The fact is there's no lore stating Umbar was weak, even if it doesn't fit with your impression of lore. Considering everyone else was weak, and the elves were considered to have some sort of naval presence, then saying that context is irrelevant is silly. If Gondor had such an excellent navy, where's this all elusive proof that it was great, and not just merely a navy? Well I don't see your evidence that everyone else was weak. We only saw a small portion of middle earth in the books, and the only kingdoms bordering the sea were the elves and Gondor. So yes, those are the two who likely had naval influence. Doesn't mean the rest of the coastal kingdoms were weak as well. And there are quotes that Gondor retained influence in Harad because of their naval power, but I suppose you would just say the Haradrim had weak navies correct?