Thread:Patrick.vtap/@comment-27097330-20160904202547/@comment-27097330-20160906000419

The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: ChazmanianDevil wrote: Tolkien left middle earth to us. It's our job not to destroy it, but it's also our job not to constrict it. I doubt he would have wanted that. Now on a more serious note, no, I don't think Tolkien would want us constricting lore, but I don't think he would want us making Umbar a naval power that could destroy Gondor single handedly if it wanted to, an empire that arguably rules Harad because of its influence, a place where Black Númenóreans mysteriously reappear after they were most likely put under a genocide by Gondor, or a place that somehow manages to remain prosperous and strong after every major attack and conquest by Gondor. I don't think he wants it to be the place Pat made it out to be.

Rather, it would make more sense if there were a small handful of Black Númenórean nobles, who just so happened to reclaim Umbar with the help of a decent amount of Haradrim that hated Gondor, and had a reasonable influence on the coast with some settlements on the west coast (of course, the settlements might not work out for reasons Pat is all too familiar with, and I'm actually on his side in that argument), that would eventually grow over time and become a decently sized and decently powered faction with a lot of trade access so that it isn't destroyed by the two most powerful factions (one custom, one not). I don't think Pat made it out to be any of those things, except the Black Numenoreans and even they didn't "magically appear after geoncide."

I see nothing wrong with that, but it's actually not that different from Umbar now...