Thread:Patrick.vtap/@comment-27097330-20160904202547/@comment-26347028-20160905142423

ChazmanianDevil wrote: Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: There's enough lore to state that it wasn't strong, though. They would most likely have an influence on certain coastal points of Harad, and they could be a looming threat to the coast of Gondor, but if Gondor were to launch a real invasion on Umbar, Umbar wouldn't last against them. If it weren't for Mordor being right on their doorstep, the Easterlings not far behind, and the fact that the Haradrim hated Gondor at the time, I think Gondor would have made an attempt to reclaim Umbar when Aragorn went down there to destroy their ships and kill their captain, if not before. I truly think they didn't try reclaiming it at because they felt it would be a waste of time and resources to do it. Quite frankly, with the new alliances with the Haradrim and the Easterlings, and the destruction of Mordor, I don't see why they wouldn't reclaim Umbar, the only other enemy of Gondor not stated to have befriended them after the war), seeing as nothing was stopping them from doing so.

Of course, if we were to negotiate something for the sake of fairness, those territories stretching along the coast would be very helpful Umbar stay alive long enough to fend off Gondor, but by no means could they crush Gondor alone, nor could they completely devastate Gondor's fleets. And by no means would Umbar be an empire, except during its early days when Black Númenóreans were its main inhabitants (not after they were mostly slaughtered and replaced by Haradrim over time). And if it was such a waste of resources, it's reasonable to say that it's hardly powerful, no?

Also, realistically, they shouldn't even last against Gondor in the slightest. If Gondor started to care, and it had the availability to be able to not focus on its border with Mordor, then Umbar would be completely and utterly squashed. If Umbar went against Gondor and the circumstances weren't exceptional, they'd also utterly fail to do anything much. Once again you state this with no proof or logic. Only with the, "Gondor rules," excuse. The fact that you can't see something doesn't make it impossible.