Thread:Patrick.vtap/@comment-27097330-20160904202547/@comment-26347028-20160905160631

The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: Dark dwarves 2 wrote: Honestly it's rather illogical to think gondor has no standing navy... Just because it wasn't mentioned in the books doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Umbar had to be a threat of some sort if they would send aragorn to destroy it. Don't pull the rank card many armies would send lower ranking individuals to do such missions before. Even I admitted they were a threat at that time. But after his attack, Umbar was severely weakened, and the war 39 years later didn't help them.

For the sake of helping Umbar fit in this wiki, I would say Umbar could have some more settlements throughout Harad (the west coast would be ideal and realistic, but someone won't give up any land on that coast deapite owning far too much land already). But to put them at the level they were would be insane, and they definetly wouldn't be as influential over Harad as Pat makes them out to be. They weren't a whole lot to speak of before the wars, but yes, they were reduced to a pitiful state. They shouldn't even have direct ownership of anything outside of Umbar, really. Influence, perhaps, over an area of it. But claiming the land outside of Umbar is a silly claim, let alone the stupid amount he was claiming.