Thread:Patrick.vtap/@comment-27097330-20160904202547/@comment-26347028-20160905142616

ChazmanianDevil wrote: The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: Maltalidenta Kwuitidherali wrote: The Lord of Minas Morgul wrote: There's enough lore to state that it wasn't strong, though. They would most likely have an influence on certain coastal points of Harad, and they could be a looming threat to the coast of Gondor, but if Gondor were to launch a real invasion on Umbar, Umbar wouldn't last against them. If it weren't for Mordor being right on their doorstep, the Easterlings not far behind, and the fact that the Haradrim hated Gondor at the time, I think Gondor would have made an attempt to reclaim Umbar when Aragorn went down there to destroy their ships and kill their captain, if not before. I truly think they didn't try reclaiming it at because they felt it would be a waste of time and resources to do it. Quite frankly, with the new alliances with the Haradrim and the Easterlings, and the destruction of Mordor, I don't see why they wouldn't reclaim Umbar, the only other enemy of Gondor not stated to have befriended them after the war), seeing as nothing was stopping them from doing so.

Of course, if we were to negotiate something for the sake of fairness, those territories stretching along the coast would be very helpful Umbar stay alive long enough to fend off Gondor, but by no means could they crush Gondor alone, nor could they completely devastate Gondor's fleets. And by no means would Umbar be an empire, except during its early days when Black Númenóreans were its main inhabitants (not after they were mostly slaughtered and replaced by Haradrim over time). And if it was such a waste of resources, it's reasonable to say that it's hardly powerful, no? Well, I can imagine that it was enough of a threat at that time that Gondor sent Aragorn (not knowing who he really was, of course) to destroy a bunch of their ships and kill their captain. After that attack (which was done specifically because Aragorn knew that if they were left unchecked, they would overrun Gondor's coast), they were considerably weakened, which is why the events during ROTK were able to happen. But I was thinking more that it would be a waste of resources because the Haradrim could drive the Gondorian soldiers out again, and they would have reclaimed it for nothing, not to mention Mordor and the Easterlings could attack while Gondor was focused on lands elsewhere. Of course, allying with the Haradrim and Easterlings, and the destruction of Mordor would most likely change that. Exactly. They wouldn't have sent Aragorn, (who had a pretty sweet track record,) unless they were a threat. And even though they were weakened by his attack. They still managed to be a major threat during the War of the Ring. And although it's true they were mostly at peace after the War of the Ring you're forgetting the Haradrim weren't a kingdom like Gondor. They were a bunch of warring tribes and kingdoms. Do even if some allied or made peace with Gondor others would still support Umbar and be a legitimate threat. They sent a random ranger chieftain. So, yes, they would've sent Aragorn if it wasn't a threat. As Minas pointed out, he was basically a nobody except in terms of the military, where he was basically the general of what amounted to a fiefdom's army. It's like Dol Amroth doing it but not even sending a large amount of forces or the prince. That's not a threat.